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In this episode of Charge the Wave, we welcome Fara Palumbo, Former Senior Vice President and Chief People Officer at Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina, a leader in delivering innovative health care products, services, and information to 3.8 million members.
Tune in to this episode as Fara talks about:
- her path to becoming a Chief People Officer
- the importance of relationship building
- her key piece of advice for those holding a leadership role
- the importance of changing personally as the company changes
About Fara Palumbo
Fara Palumbo is the Former Senior Vice President and Chief People Officer at Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina, a leader in delivering innovative health care products, services, and information to 3.8 million members.
Throughout her career, she has focused on transforming the talent and culture of teams through a focus on innovation, diversity, and change leadership. During her tenure at Blue Cross NC, Fara has led the transformation of the company’s talent strategy, delivering a compelling and credible employment value proposition and leading cultural change to enable and sustain long-term business growth.
Under her leadership, the company has achieved and maintained its certification as a Great Place to Work© and has earned numerous recognitions as an employer of choice, including the Working Mother Top 100, Best Companies in Healthcare & BioPharma, Forbes Best Mid-sized Companies for Diversity, and NAFE Top Company for Women Executives.
Fara has also been engaged with several professional and charitable organizations. As a founding board member of the Triangle Chief HR Officer Association (TCHROA), she helped create an organization to support senior HR leaders in their pursuit of excellence. She has also provided expertise to advisory boards including NC Family Forward and has been an active board member of several charitable organizations, including the Susan G. Komen Triangle to the Coast Affiliate, where she served as Board President.
She has been honored by the Triangle Business Journal in their inaugural class of C-Suite award winners, which recognizes excellence in corporate leadership and community service.
Learn more about Fara:
Connect with Fara on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/farapalumbo/
Read the full transcript of this episode:
TAI ( 00:02:24): Welcome to Charge the Wave. So what’s this podcast about? We’re gonna focus on entrepreneurs, executives and icons who are building companies, cultures and communities. Specifically we’ll interview industrious pioneers who are navigating the rough waters of the unknown, rising and grinding every day to face the endless uphill climb. This includes inspiring entrepreneurs, influential executives, iconic individuals and some of my favorite authors. Don’t forget to like, subscribe and share. For this first episode, I’ll chat with a former colleague of mine, Fara Colombo, the former SVP and Chief People Officer at Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina like myself, she came to the healthcare industry from the world of finance. Whereas I spent time at several organizations, she spent her entire career at Citibank and then Blue Cross NC where she became a leader in delivering innovative healthcare product services and information to over 3.8 million members. Throughout her career, she was focused on transforming the talent and culture of teams to focus on innovation, diversity and change leadership, including the number one ERG In the US where I was the chairman from 2018 to 2020 I had the opportunity to work very closely with Sarah and her team and I knew she’d be an incredible first guest for this episode. Without further ado here’s our first episode.
Hi Let’s jump right in. Fara, congratulations on your retirement, made official January 6th earlier this year, which we’ll get to. But before that, let’s jump right in and start with the formative years. Would love to hear more about your family and childhood.
FARA ( 00:03:59): Thanks Tai and thanks for having me, I’m really excited about this today. Um So I grew up in an Italian family, we lived in New York. My parents were immigrants who came to the US a couple of years before I was born, I had three siblings, so a house full of kids. You know when I think about growing up, our parents taught us the value of hard work. Uh the importance of an education, having a strong faith and really caring about each other. You know, at the time we didn’t have a lot of material things, but I can look back and definitely say we have tons of great memories.
TAI ( 00:04:41): Thank you for that. Any distinct memories from your formative years you care to share?
FARA ( 00:04:49): Um you know I would say that the thing that I always think back on and I try to replicate in my life today is coming together as a family, we did everything over meals. You know, we, it was, it was simple and it’s hard to do simple today, but it was always great and you know, when I think back on the little things like my dad teaching me to ride my bike, I can remember that, like it was yesterday and it was 100 years ago. So it’s just like all of that and really the focus on getting an education and doing the right thing and always remembering, you know, sort of from where you’ve come and uh it was a really special time.
TAI ( 00:05:40): That sounds amazing. Any particular stories that reverberated with you throughout your life and and career from from childhood or your early years?
FARA ( 00:05:51): You know? Um I would say that definitely um the focus on school, I mean, I think back sometimes about how strict my dad was about being really focused on school and you know, doing always doing the right thing, and I look back on it, it’s it’s really, it was an important part of who I am and how I became who I am, but if I’m really honest, it’s pretty annoying at the time. Um you know, that that’s the reality. I mean, you look back on your childhood and you say, what are all the things that I thought were annoying back then, but I really respect today and made me probably who I am today, and the way even I raised my own children. Um you know, the stories I can tell about, like, learning how to cook at my mom’s side and learning how to bake and remembering it’s like it’s a running, it’s running sort of joke in my family, with the competition between the siblings, like who makes the better ‘x’ who makes the better ‘y’? And it all goes back to then, you know, taking the time to sit and learn. Um and you don’t forget those things.
TAI ( 00:07:02): You mentioned your father, are there any particular role models or mentors you had growing up or through school?
FARA ( 00:07:12): Absolutely. So, you know, I’m often asked this question about when you go through life and you achieve, you know, reasonably successful career, people always ask you about your mentors and your role models. And I’ve had many um throughout my life’s journey, but what I will say, um is that the person I always looked to and I mentioned my dad, but my first role model was definitely my mom. Um she was a very young, 21 year old when she married my dad, she left her family in Europe and all that she knew in Italy when she moved to the states. She didn’t speak the language, she had virtually no support system here. Um but she learned the language, she had incredible, exceptional sewing skills, which, you know, you think about that and say, oh, she she made dresses for her kids and whatnot, but she didn’t, she used those skills to build a business to help support the family, um, raise four children, educated kids, who’ve actually all becomes pretty successful, never lost her faith despite the many, many challenges that she and my dad faced through the years. Um, you know in my eyes, I would say she is the epitome of a strong, courageous woman who also had a very soft spot in her heart for her kids and her family. Um you know, if somebody was the really strict one, it was my dad, and she played along with the strictness, but figured out how to help you, you know, kind of get through those tough times. Um she was so balanced and I remember at um one of their anniversaries, it was very late in life um, in her life when I told her, I finally said to her that she was such an inspiration to me, and she never saw herself in that way. You know, she was just this person who she felt like, well, I’m not really super educated, it’s really important for you to get an education, like, you had the best education of all, like, you don’t necessarily have just had to learn it in school and, you know, I can always, I always look back on that and think she was such an amazing woman, and if I could be half as good as a woman and a parent, um that was always really a goal. Um you know, from a business perspective, there have been plenty of other mentors that I’ve had, I’d probably say that um each of them, almost all of whom had at least one thing in common and you know, that is that they always had the time. They were always willing to share, they were willing to not only share their knowledge but also to give really candid feedback. That’s one of the things that I always felt like was really important if I wanted to um if I was in making a presentation or if I was in um you know, in a business meeting very often I would ask for feedback and it were those mentors that were willing to share um to truly help me be as successful as possible and I, you know, I really still appreciate that. It’s really the one thing that I reflect on and I hope that I’ve been able to give back in very much the same way.
TAI ( 00:10:32): How did you pick your college or university when, when it was time to go to school?
FARA ( 00:10:40): Well, funny story, um when I was coming toward the end of high school, I had it in my head that I wanted to go to law school. If I, if I tell you who I wanted to be like, I would really date myself, but in my head, I was going to be a criminal defense attorney, this is what I was gonna do. Um, so I looked at a bunch of different schools and within the New York area and I decided that I was going to attend Fordham University, which is where I did attend, but I went to the Lincoln Center campus and if you know anything about the university, they have two campuses, one is in, in Manhattan and one is in Rose Hill in the Bronx. I went to the Lincoln Center campus because that’s where the law school was located. So again, in my head, I thought this will be awesome. I’m going to have exposure to the law school and it turned out that as part of my whole financial aid package, I was given a work study in the law school. It didn’t take long after that exposure for me to decide, this isn’t for me, this isn’t what I want to do. I don’t know what possessed me to think this is what I wanted to do. It was really funny because I mentioned my dad before, he was probably the unhappiest the day I said, I’m not going to law school, not applying, not doing it. Um, he was not happy with me, but you know, again, my parents were very much like, you need to do what makes you happy, you need to do what you want to do. Um, but for anyone who knows me today, especially given the role that I have, I often joke about practicing without a license because you know, you’re an HR person. But fortunately good and smart HR people surround themselves with attorneys, fabulous attorneys, you know, and if I had um to do it over again, if I had any thought about changing something, um probably what I would change is, you know, making that decision to go to the campus and Lincoln Center and I was in Manhattan, so I therefore commuted from home to school. I feel like I missed out on that whole sort of university experience. And because I think there’s a lot to be said about going to college is not just about getting the formal education, but it’s about getting those other experiences that are really formative and important um in your life. So if there was one thing I might change, it would be that um but I wouldn’t change my degree. Um I loved, I loved majoring in psych, it was not an accident, it was something that really um I’m very passionate about, I’m very interested in because it’s about human behavior and you can imagine, you know, given what I do now, it really has been helpful. As a senior HR person we often joke about being the, you know, therapist in, in the executive therapists-in-training or in residence. Um but it is really, it was really very helpful and I had a wonderful advisor at the time. The only other thing I’d say is like, probably in my third year I discovered economics, and I wish I had discovered economics sooner because I have a real interest um in business as well. So I wound up only being able to do a minor and uh but it was a great, it was great and it set the stage for the future.
TAI ( 00:14:12): I had no idea about the kind of legal interest in law interest. I write for Above the Law. So I promise this isn’t a shout out for Above the Law, but it kind of, that’s super exciting. And you and I and our careers have worked a lot on a lot of diversity, equity and inclusion. That’s that’s what I focused on for the Above the Law website. Um and I think that profession certainly could be improved in that regard. So this is the first section I kind of, if you don’t make me cry, I’ll be able to read my questions that I have here, but it was fantastic hearing about your mother and father’s influence on your life. So, moving to this kind of the second part, we’re gonna we went from formative years and then we’re gonna talk about the career. One of my favorite books, Reid Hoffman, the book is titled The Start Up Of You and he, you know, advises that you should treat your career as a startup, hence the start up of you. When you started your career and you embarked on your journey, how did you think about it? Did you always want to be a Chief People Officer? Um tell us how that’s how that began.
FARA ( 00:15:22): You know, again, this is one of those questions that I often get asked like, did you have a plan, what was the plan? How did you get where you are? I wish I could say I had a formal plan to become the Chief People Officer, which, you know, let’s face it, Chief People Officer wasn’t even a thing back in the day. So, um I would say that I absolutely did not have a plan. When I first joined Citibank um which it was a great experience, I was actually a budget analyst for a division within HR. So I was really fortunate to work with very talented people in the corporate employee relations and labor relations division. So at the enterprise level, um the head of that division negotiated all the labor contracts, they did all the employee relations cases. It was, City was an amazing and I’m sure still is an amazing place to be as a young professional. I worked very, very hard at the role that I had, I tried to learn all the time and put myself in situations where I could be exposed to people that, you know, I could really learn from. What I would say is that in addition to doing that at the same time, because remember I was the budget analyst in this HR division and the people that were doing this work, I knew nothing about that work that I was really, really curious and I would ask a lot of questions and I would meddle and I would just you know, try to be engaged as much as I could and listen as much as I could. And I was as I said, really fortunate because these were people who were not shy about supporting you and helping you and you know, sort of getting you ready um for whatever might come next. And after the first few years of this and I was only there for a couple of years, I decided that I did really want to potentially pursue HR as a career. In all fairness, I will admit I was in the perfect spot because I was working with people who worked with HR leaders around the company, so I was able to really pursue opportunities and post for jobs and interview for jobs and um so I was exploring generalist roles in other parts of the company. I went into and was given an opportunity to work as a um an HR business partner is what we call it today um in the retail bank of the company. So that is basically all of the branches and the branches were a much bigger thing than they are today because that’s how business was done. Most every branch manager that I would interact with was probably 20 years older than me. And here was this you know little HR person who’s coming in, telling them how to run their branch and talking to them about what issues that they might have had. But again I was really really fortunate to work with a very willing and open group of individuals. Um it was just such a great experience. I did that for a few years and you know sort of a cut to the chase. I progressed vertically in the retail bank. I then moved laterally into a specialist function. I was in a compensation area and an HRAS. Type area then back into an HR generalist type role and moved up. So there was a lot of this what I call, you know, you know I’m sure we’ll talk about this later like zigzagging, you know up, over, up, over and that’s really important because it gave me the opportunity and a company like Citi, you know people talk about Blue and say, Oh Blue is such a big company Citi at the time I think had 90,000 employees worldwide. So lots and lots of opportunity if you were willing to sort of take those risks. When I left Citi, I was running um the HR team for global security. So investment banking, really exciting time um before 9/11. So exciting time on Wall Street when I came to Blue, to Blue Cross NC very much life decision, it was not simply a career decision, it was definitely a life decision. We had two children at the time that we’re pretty young um and it was a lateral move, I described it probably not even as a lateral move, it might have been a lateral a little bit of a step back, but it was what we really, we made a decision as a family to do. It was a very different company at the time and frankly was a different industry obviously, so it gave me the opportunity to learn something completely new um and what I’ve always said is financial services went through a lot of things that healthcare later went through and it was, I didn’t know it at the time, but I really benefited by the fact that I was in financial services before I came into healthcare. Um and I’d say that through all of that time, the best part of, I guess the journey was that I had very diverse experiences which made really for a very rich career. Um by the time the opportunity 14 years ago came up to be the head of HR um did I want the job? 100%. Did I want the job, so I could be the Chief People Officer? That wasn’t really sort of the rationale, but I felt like we had been doing such great work and I could see where I could make a really meaningful difference and propel further with the support of the team and with support of the leadership um to continue that, that cultural transformation and um you know, sort of the rest is history.
TAI ( 00:21:26): and I think it’s important for audience to understand what we’re trying to do the root cause of what makes someone successful. It’s rarely that they had a linear trajectory that it was just straight through. There’s a lot of zigzags, side winding, wandering. Um There’s a lot of deviation in the paths and it’s great to hear that if you mentioned your legal interests, economic interests starting as a budget analyst, if you didn’t end up being the C. P. L. Chief People Officer and SVP at Blue, is there an alternative path you could have imagined or is there anything else you think you would have done, choose this path?
FARA ( 00:22:04): Sure. You know, if I think early on, um as I said before, I mean, I could have made, had a very different career, had I not made that decision not to go to law school, like I might still be the Chief People Officer if I had gone to law school, who knows. Could I have gone into the finance area, that would have been another thing. I mean, I’m really think of myself as being pretty analytical and um enjoying the financials. So that might have been something I might have done differently. Um, you know, I don’t know. I mean, I wish I understood back then about consulting because that, that might have been something that I would have enjoyed doing because there’s such a variety. Um, it’s hard to say, you know, even even something completely radically different would be teaching. You know, I thought about, did I want to become a teacher? When I 1st 1st started college, I was majoring in foreign languages, I was majoring in spanish and the adviser asked me if I would be willing to teach english as a second language and be a teacher. Um, but I was so becoming a little bit more entrenched in my sort of love for psychology and organizational psych that I knew that’s not what I wanted to do. So, any number of things could have happened. It’s hard to Monday morning quarterback. Um, and you know, look back and say, I wonder what would have been, it could have been any number of things.
TAI ( 00:23:26): Well, let’s get a bit more concrete. Well, you had a career spanning over two organizations really rare to just be at two, Citibank and Blue. Were there any inflection points or were there any points that you might have left for a different offer? Were you ever, you know, approached?,
FARA ( 00:23:47): Sure. So what I would tell you is, uh, was I ever attempted to leave Blue? I mean, I’ve now retired, so I can admit all these things. Right? Was I ever tempted to leave Blue? Yes. I was especially early early on when I first got there. I think I mentioned earlier that when I first left Citi to go to Blue, it was a very different organization. The one thing that’s been constant is the mission to serve the people of North Carolina. I think the mission to improve health care has gotten even stronger as time has gone on and that is the purpose that I’m so drawn to. Um, but culturally it was very different. So I left this very progressive organization leading an HR function sort of on my own to this other role. But I came here to work with someone who was an amazing mentoring colleague that I worked with at Citi and when he left, which was shortly, I mean, maybe two years later, um, I started answering phone calls and I always tell leaders this. People don’t have to go look for a job, They start answering the telephone and that’s what you need to worry about. So, answering the phone, I started answering the phone and there was um, there were a few times when I thought this might be really interesting and I would go have those conversations, I got really, really close to leaving at one point, it got to the very end of the process and backed out. I was the final candidate for another role and backed out because I felt like I don’t know that this is a sort of a theme I always share with people. I don’t really know if I’m running towards something amazing or if I’m running from something that I’m just trying to get away from and there were a lot of leadership changes that were happening at the time. So um I decided I’m gonna give this a little bit more time and it turned out that those leadership changes made a significant difference. And we began to be able to really truly work on culture and talent and the focus there. So definitely, definitely had those moments.
TAI ( 00:25:59): Thank you for your candor and to piggyback on that, you know, being part of the C-Suite is weathering storms, It’s surviving wreckage is um it’s dealing with shit when it hits the fan stories that you can tell from your time in the C-Suite.
FARA ( 00:26:19): I think it’s safe to say, probably not to get any specific about any stories. You know, but what I would say is that what I always want to see C-Suite folks really pay attention to is that leadership and development, developing their people, developing their teams is that’s their job, that’s what they should be doing. And and I don’t even mean directing work. I mean truly being able to be a leader that people want to follow. Um You know, you’re familiar with Simon Sinek, who I could quote all day long. One of my favorite thought leaders in this space. And I’ve read recently, he said that you know, a leader’s job is to help others figure out how to do it themselves to get the job done and to succeed beyond what they thought was possible. That for me is you know, sort of what I hope to see in the C-Suite all the time. Um So these aren’t necessarily, this is not necessarily a story, but I’ve seen so many stories of that not working well. Um and I think that it’s it’s such a tragedy because you you you know, you spend so much time finding people and um you know, bringing them on board and onboarding them and and then you don’t do the things as a leader that you should do and C-Suite talks about culture, but you have to that has to be critically important. You know, anybody listening to this podcast is gonna say of course Fara, you know, everybody knows that’s what you should be doing. But the reality is it doesn’t happen. You know, and you mentioned diversity before, an important part of this is diversity. And you know, you got a lot of leaders who are talking about diversity now, diversity isn’t about checking boxes, it’s not about checking boxes to make sure you have the right number of people in all of the various demographics. It’s about hiring different people, seeing each of them, seeing their uniqueness and figuring out how to get, you know, your business work done, how to harness that so that the differences they bring actually help you do that kind of great work. It’s really about unleashing people. So you know, the other thing I would say is I’m going off on a tangent, but when you mentioned C-Suite, you know, C-Suite individuals, actually leaders in general relationship building is really important. I mean you and I have known each other a little bit right? And I think that is what’s critically important. You’ve got to get to know people as much as as you can, as many people as you can. And I think the best leaders take a minute to acknowledge good work and they do that way beyond their direct report team. They’ll seek out people in the organization who are doing that tough work and they’ll genuinely show that appreciation. It’s not really that hard, but you’d be surprised how meaningful of an impact it has um on those individuals. Um Can I share a story? Quick example. Um I was speaking to a woman um recently who left the company maybe a year ago. She did not feel valued. She actually, she actually liked the job. Um but didn’t really know where she stood in the company and wasn’t really clear on her path there. Um Never really got the feedback that was necessary or the acknowledgement. Um, simple things. Right? So she starts answering as I said before she starts answering the phone, Recruiter, Linkedin. I mean it’s just in your face all the time, apply for this job, you know, so she did that and she wound up leaving the company that she was at so fast forward new job, new role, new company very similar in size to the other company, which is kind of a small company. And I wouldn’t say it’s a startup but similar to the size of a startup, right? So you know 100 or so people, 150 people. Um one of the first things that happened in that role was she and members of her team, her colleagues had to handle some very difficult work that involved lots of employees. Um, so it happens, the end of the day CEO shows up at her desk and simply says this. I know it’s been a really tough day. I just want to thank you for your help shook her hand, see you later. That was the most impactful, meaningful thing that had happened to her probably in a long time. And I think that you know one of the things that you have to deal with this to get back to your wreckages question when you’re having these crises. These are the moments that build trust that you can then rely on the people during those very, very difficult moments. And I don’t think leaders recognize that building that trust, um is something that has to happen a little bit at a time. So, um you know, I can’t sit here and tell you the stories about the crises and the wreckage is with being with specifics. Um but certainly, you know, I think going through many, when we’ve had success, it’s been because of that.
TAI ( 00:32:19): And I often, you make me think of what I call it the power of one, the power of one moment, power of one relationship. And and I love that you bring it makes me think about, you know, when you’re at a startup at a company and you’re staring at the abyss chewing glass, getting donkey kicked in the stomach every day, you wanna make sure you’re establishing a culture of foundation, relationship ties that can bind you through the chaos that you know, together that you swing through and get out to the other side. So that’s great to hear. And before the break, just one last question, then we’ll go to break. Um tell us a little bit about when you knew it was time to retire and and how you made a decision, because we’ll be there pretty soon.
FARA ( 00:33:02): Yeah, I hope you will all be there. It’s a great place to be. It’s a great place to be, especially when you make the decision on your own terms, and I was very, very fortunate to be able to make that decision on my own terms when I was personally ready. Look I’ve had I look back and as I said, I feel very fortunate very blessed to have had a great career um to work with a great team of people both in every HR team and leadership team we accomplished especially um in this last say decade, so much more than I ever thought we would ever be able to accomplish um despite many, many challenges and a global pandemic like who would have who would have ever thought right. But the day came, you know after, after the not that the pandemic really ended, but you know you go through that and then I have been through a couple of CEO transitions, help the board through that new ceo in place almost two years. So at his almost two year mark I said you know what, it’s time for somebody else, everybody, everything is sort of settled now, if I’m ever gonna leave, this is the time and if I wait any longer I have to just be all in for another, say three more years, maybe longer and I don’t think I have it in me at this point. Um it’s time for me to go enjoy my life and everything that I’ve worked so hard for. Um I have a great family and I um you know it’s time to do what I want to do. So you know when I told the CEO that he he had a very funny reaction at first, it was your typical, oh my God, you cannot do this. Um but he was totally and super supportive and you know, I’m excited about the ability to sort of watch what goes on there and see my successor now take things to the next level. So we call it, you know, 2.0 and I’m excited to watch that continued transformation.
TAI ( 00:35:14): anything you’ll miss?
FARA ( 00:35:18): if there’s anything I’m gonna miss, I mean I think it’s, I can easily say it’s the people I’ve worked with um the leaders, I’ve worked with my team members. Um you know, I’ve been very very fortunate to have an incredible HR team through the years. The people in the workforce, the employees, you know, I don’t think I realized uh the Chief People Officer role, you know, most roles in HR but certainly the role that I’ve been in, you have an ability to truly make a difference. And it’s all the little things that I don’t think I realized as they were happening. I mean just everything. But when I announced I was leaving and the emails from folks started coming in, little notes people were sending me. I’ve been very taken aback by that um by the wonderful feedback and the heartfelt messages that I’ve gotten. So I can I leave and I say, you know, I have lots of ideas and I can keep giving you ideas and we can keep brainstorming new and different things to do um but it’s time but at least in my heart I know there are so many people that I feel like I’ve left in a good place um and that are going to continue to be super successful. I’m really excited to continue watching them grow from afar.
TAI ( 00:36:43): Okay with that, we’ll take a beat, we’ll run the ads and we’ll return for the advice segment.
VOICEOVER ( 00:36:51): Charge the Wave is brought to you by The Diversity Movement, the diversity movement. DEI Navigator is everything you need all in one place. You get access to a host of resources with DEI Navigator and all. At a fraction of the cost of hiring a full service DEI consultancy visit www.thediversitymovement.com/footnote to learn more. Outrigger Cold Brew Coffee Co. Be wherever you may and whatever your next challenge. Outrigger Cold Brew Coffee company is cold brewing our next batch of Aloha spirit from soil to sip to help you charge the wave.
TAI ( 00:37:32): Great. This is the advice segment. I call it the pre lightning round, maybe the thunder round the lightning round and that will wrap up the show. So with that let’s jump right in anything you wish you’d known when you started on your career journey.
FARA ( 00:37:51): That’s a great question. Um you know it’s tough to say. I would say that I um probably that it was more difficult than I could have imagined. Um you know, there have been different points over the years where things seemed easier than others. Um you know, especially through those crises and wreckages and so forth. Um also probably early on I felt like or I believed I had to know all things and I think that’s sort of what typically happens when you start either a new career or even as a new leader. You think you’re supposed to know everything, but very, very quickly you realize that you the most important thing to do is just surround yourself with people that are smarter than you about all the things that you don’t know, and critical to all that is knowing what you don’t know um, and be humble about it. It has always been sort of a goal of mine to make sure that the team members, that we are a team. So we all have different, we all have different knowledge. We all bring things, different things to the table. We all have different roles to play at different points in time. Um, but the key to everything and I’ve said this a few times is trust. I mean trusting that they’re going to deliver. Um, and then learn from them as you go. Um you know, it’s easy to not want to ask the tough questions. I actually said to somebody once who was a peer of mine, you know, can you tell me this was after a meeting? And I said, you know, I didn’t want to ask this stupid question, like could you tell me what this, what this is? And he said to me, you know what’s really funny? He said, everybody else in the room probably had that same what you think is a stupid question. Like everybody should be willing to ask questions and so I learned that, you know, pretty early on, it’s really important to engage and be willing to show your vulnerability about what you know, and what you don’t know.
TAI ( 00:39:55): I think after an audience member listens to several of these episodes, they’re going to see a pattern for the executives or the entrepreneurs or icons on their kind of circuitous journey or voyage. So they ended up and not necessarily having a clear path or following a linear trajectory. Do you have any specific advice for others that are either embarking on their voyage into the corporate world or um into the executive or C-Suite?
FARA ( 00:40:28): Well, I would say this starts as early as possible in my mind. I tell I say this all the time and it’s the one that this is probably another thing that I did not do well enough early on in my career. So I advise people all the time to do this network with interesting people all the time. Don’t wait until you’re looking for a new role. I mean I think that’s the big mistake. People get sort of um uncomfortable sort of jammed up and they’re unhappy at work and they start scrambling looking for another job and that is not the time to be networking. You should have built this sort of cadre of people that can help you along the way make those connections and you know at Blue Cross um as you know there’s a a mentor program. Um One of the things that I I’ve told to said to many people that I’ve mentored in this program along the way is if you want to know someone, if you would love to have a conversation with xyz Executive and you don’t know how to make that I’m your mentor like let me make that connection. Think about the people and make this sort of I this may be a real thing, but in my head it’s sort of a think of it as a spider web. You know, you start at the center and who do I want to know, I want to know that person, that person is connected to that person and so on and so forth. And how do you build that? And I think people who have been able to move through organizations and get opportunities um within and outside have done that really well. Um So that would be the first thing I would say. We talked earlier about zigzagging. I think many people spend too much time focused on. I am here and I need to go up here as opposed to I know what I want to do eventually. What are the most meaningful experiences that I should get along the way to, to sort of result in a really rich experience? I think that’s something that people don’t focus on, their only focused on that. And how do I go from Point A to Point B and it’s got to be vertical and I really care about my title because my title is so important and the reality is that titles can be important, but you have to understand what that title means because titles mean different things in different places. And so I’m always very cautious about that. Um you know, I think about your career as a marathon, there’s, it’s a long time, let’s face it, if you only start with coming out of undergrad, if you’ve gone to undergrad or if you think about it, coming out of even high school by the time you’re going to really retire is a long time and to be worried about hurry, hurry, hurry, just for the sake of it is just not, I don’t think helpful. I think you want to, you know, enjoy the experience and learn as much as you can along the way and meet great people and learn from really interesting people that may be above you, maybe beside you and maybe below you. I mean, I’ve learned so much from people that either are on the team below me or within the company that are in much more junior jobs. Um, so that’s just a couple of things I would say.
TAI ( 00:43:51): I really appreciate those sentiments. Again, it reminds me of Reid Hoffman, the startup review book where he talks about putting money away for an interesting people fund and that you can buy plane tickets or coffee or meals with this fund that you’re putting away to make sure you’re being proactive in meeting these people that are interesting that you want to add to your network, that not only you can learn from, but that you could add value to as well.
FARA ( 00:44:14): That’s exactly right. That’s exactly because it should be a two way street. I mean, I always, I always think that we have to think about it that way.
TAI ( 00:44:20): Yeah, definitely. I mean, given that your specialty was HR, was human capital, is human capital, is HR, are there any kind of common denominators you’ve noticed that you’d like to highlight the most successful peers and executives?
FARA ( 00:44:39): Yes. I mean, I would say that first of all, and I think I alluded to this earlier, um, people who are in the C-Suite that are really the most successful, I think um, set the tone for the culture of the company. Now, keep in mind, I’m gonna say this and this has probably been said by people much smarter than I, this is not about putting values on the wall. I’m not saying don’t hang them on the wall. I think that’s always great to continue to keep that in front of people. But if you hang things on the wall that are not real, that is the worst situation to be in, people figure out pretty quickly that it’s disingenuous. So keeping culture top of mind, creating an environment where everyone can thrive, um where they can be themselves, where they can truly make a difference. I think executives that I’ve worked with who see that as critical um have been amazing to work with, it’s not HR’s job to create culture. I mean, yes, we’re catalysts, yes, we can put forth lots of ideas, but the executive team and the leadership team of the company need to see it as their role. Another thing that I would say is that really great executives that I’ve worked with have the courage, I could say period, have courage, but have the courage to admit their mistakes and take responsibility. It’s always fascinating when a leader will and I hear this often, like they will tell you why their team, you know, is the cause of all the ills when they’re the leader ultimately at the end of the day, it is your responsibility and you know, I worked with an executive years ago who stood in front of the entire leadership team after a crisis and said this is my responsibility publicly, very publicly. It would have really been easy to say, I didn’t know, not my responsibility, but stood there and said this is my responsibility, this happened on my watch and I could not have any more respect for that person than I do, I mean it that is something that’s really important. The other thing is um they trust their people, they create safe environments for innovation, for brainstorming, um and as part of all that for failure. Things don’t always go well, right? But the most fun that I feel like I’ve ever had in any role has been with the team and we are thinking out loud now as a leader, I have learned to be clear, Brene Brown always says clear as kind clear about the fact that I am thinking out loud because it is too easy for everyone to come back and say, but you said this is what you want us to do, and I’m like no, no, no, we were just brainstorming, was thinking out loud and then give up control and I don’t mean like let the chips fall where they may, but put others in a in a position to have exposure to do the work, to get the credit, um bring, bring different minds to the table, I think that’s another thing that great leaders do. The other thing is and I know and I know you’re going to spend a lot of time talking to entrepreneurs and startups, recognize when change has to happen. I’ve seen individuals run startups or smaller companies that grow and have fabulous growth and success and as that company grows that company is changing. Acknowledge that it’s changing, accept that it’s changing and change with it. Like it’s an amazing thing that you’ve grown this company but it can’t be like it’s always been, it’s the same thing with a fairly large company like Blue Cross was maybe 3000 people at one point and it’s now almost 6000 people and with that came a lot of change. You have to really acknowledge that it’s changing and listen to all the various voices in the company to you know, change along with it. It’s really important. Um I guess the final thing that I would say is great leaders, not just in the C-Suite are willing to give candid feedback. I am often amazed at the unwillingness of leaders to not want to be direct. And then what happens is now we have a major failure and the person is shocked, you know? So as an HR leader, I can tell you, I see that a lot and I love the executive that is willing to provide feedback regularly and have truly what even we call at Blue meaningful conversations that are clear, productive and action oriented. Like what do you want to see differently? I spoke to someone recently who said why ask this person to do x, y and z because I want to really see if they can do it and they haven’t given me anything. I said when did you ask for it to be done by? And I had a little bit of a deer in the headlights because in their passion to get this person like better they forgot the sort of most basic things and having meaningful, really direct respectful conversations I think is really important. So I said a lot but if I keep going I can think of more things but there you have it.
TAI ( 00:50:40): I think of the tenants of radical candor change, I think of that famous axiom. “No man can step in the same river twice for he is not the same man and the river is ever changing.” Another one I’m thinking of, you know, “smooth seas never made a skilled mariner”when we’re kind of thinking outside of the A frame and how to solve stuff. Do you have any effective tools for dealing with with crisis? Um when I was at Blue Cross we made you know the paper twice, one for value based care and one for another crisis and I thought the way you handled yourself, the way you set the temperature for the room for the company was um was really motivating and inspiring and just was wondering some of the tools you used to navigate those unstable waters.
FARA ( 00:51:31): Yeah, I mean I would say first of all, when you’re in the middle of a crisis, like really understand the facts, I think it’s easy to get caught up in conjecture. It’s like really understand the facts and you know, in several situations we had really great people working on things that you know handled all of that. Um but as far as you know what you’re referring to in terms of, you know, the difficult communication and so forth, I think especially with a public crisis, um it’s really important and this is the way I always describe it. It’s important to not allow people to make up stories because they’re gonna make up their own stories if you’re not transparent. So transparency is really critical and and it’s hard sometimes to be transparent, but you have to do it to the extent possible. Um because otherwise people are gonna make up their own stories and they’re gonna have water cooler conversations, either you know when we, when lots of stuff happens, we were still back in the day in person, literal water cooler today, it’s all virtual water cooler, but it does happen. Um and I think transparency is important. Say as much as you can or say, I can’t say. Leaders need to get used to saying, you know what, I really can’t share all the details, but let me share and you probably have heard me say this, like let me share as much as I can. Um the key before the crisis happens and I sort of alluded to this earlier, you’ve got to work on the foundation of trust in the organization so that it exists before the crisis and members of my team, we would always talk about the reservoir of trust and if you have built that and have that to the greatest extent possible when there’s a crisis and you have to dip into the bucket, dip into the reservoir, it actually exists and people believe what you’re, what you’re saying. So I think that is really, really important. Don’t wait till the crisis occurs, deal with, deal with, you know, building trust early,
TAI ( 00:53:48): I got a number of other questions given, given the time, do you want to jump to the kind of charge the wave round in the lightning round, but wanted to ask you one more question before we move to the next kind of part of the show is um what, what what’s next on your horizon? What are some of the waves you want to charge next?
FARA ( 00:54:9): You know what I uh I’ve been asked this question so many times, so many times in the last month. Um and I have finally said, you know, I have a lot of things I want to do, but I want to take some time for myself um to just really decompress. This is anybody who’s in a role like mine, I applaud them all for doing amazing work. It is a tough stressful job and I am really enjoying the opportunity to be um sort of low key a little bit, reading a lot. Uh, my daughter is fabulous. She bought me all these mind games. So I’ve been becoming an expert at Sudoku. She’s laughing at me thinking it’s great that I’m taking time to actually do things that require my brain, but not require my brain um, doing some traveling. Um, People are asking me, are you going to consult maybe. Are you going to be on a board maybe, you know, I don’t know. I’m open to all kinds of things. Um but for right now I’m trying to do things that don’t tie me to my calendar and it’s pretty liberating,
TAI ( 00:55:22): I bet. Well let’s move to the Charge the Wave rounds. My favorite caffeine kind of drug to wake up with is Outrigger Cold Brew Coffee. I’m a bit biased. Do you, do you have a favorite caffeinated beverage?
FARA ( 00:55:37): caffeinated beverage? Um Huh? I guess you know, I’m a coffee drinker. Um there is a, there is a soda that is caffeinated. Um but it’s very difficult to find. You find it in New York. It’s called Manhattan Special, loaded with caffeine. And I’ve actually found a diet one now. So I am, I’m always looking for the diet one because I can deal with the caffeine, but not so much the sugar.
TAI ( 00:56:07): Favorite restaurant?
FARA ( 00:56:9): Oh, so favorite restaurant um in the local area. I would say uh shout out to Mothers and Sons Trattoria in Durham, North Carolina. If you are in Durham, fabulous. The other one, which is really we, it’s more of a special occasion restaurant that we go to, we don’t go off in is the Second Empire in Raleigh. Oh my God, it’s so good. Um, yeah, they’re both great.
TAI ( 00:56:40): I’d say my top two in Durham is probably Mother and Sons and Cucciolo, so I don’t know if you’ve been there, but that’s another good one. You have to go. Favorite sports team, musical or show or all three?
FARA ( 00:56:54): These are all yours. Oh, so I’m gonna go really quickly probably if you said sports teams, I’d have to say Carolina Hurricanes, go Canes. You know, um, favorite musical, so many, Phantom of the Opera loved, I think I saw it four times. Wicked, loved it. Um Those are the two questions you asked me.
TAI ( 00:57:21): Any favorite shows or musicals that that would cover it. I think favorite vacation spot or where you want to go next.
FARA ( 00:57:32): Well, you know, I love Italy, I want to go back. I’ve been three times. What I’d really love to do is go for a more extended time and live as a local. That is really what I’d love to do. I have so much family in, in Italy, in the sort of Naples area that I would just love to go and hang out with them for several weeks.
TAI ( 00:57:55): I was there this summer and I always think about places this summer and they’re like, oh, but you’re from Texas, that has to be worse. And I was like, this is pretty bad.
FARA ( 00:58:05): Oh yeah, this past summer I heard it was terrible.
TAI ( 00:58:07) Dream concert.
FARA ( 00:58: 09) So if I were thinking about one person that I would love to see, that it would be difficult for me to see would be Andrea Bocelli. I’d love to see Andrea Bocelli in person. He’s just amazing. Concert, jeez, I mean, I love Elton John, I love Billy Joel. I loved Bruno Mars, he’s an amazing performer. Uh, if I could go back in time, I’ve never been able to see, I was probably too young. The Rolling Stones, the Beatles. I would have loved to have seen like those are some that…
TAI ( 00:58:55): dog or cat
FARA ( 00:58:58): Dog, I think he’s behind me actually, but he’s staying pretty chill right now. Thank God, say that again.
TAI ( 00:59:07): And what was his name? I saw him back there.
FARA ( 00:59:9): Rusty.
TAI ( 00:59:11): Uh, advice you could put on a billboard outside of, you know, colleges, universities outside of Duke, outside of UNC.
FARA ( 00:59:21): Yeah, it would probably be be willing to take a risk, take initiative, work hard, be patient, Maybe it would be patient as well, a little patient.
TAI ( 00:59:35): Any other life models or slogans or if you had to get a tattoo tattoo the same.
FARA ( 00:59:42): I don’t know that I would tattoo this on me. It’s very long, but I’ve been asked this question, so it’s something and I’m not going to quote her exactly, but Maya Angelou: People won’t remember what you said, they won’t remember what you did, that, they will always remember how you made them feel. And that is truly something that I think um I try very hard to live by. Um it’s really important because you just don’t know in every one of those little moments that you have um how you might be affecting someone or impacting them and you don’t know what’s going on in their day in that little moment may make a very big difference to them. So that’s what I always try to live by.
TAI ( 01:00:26): And not everyone has a bucket list if you do, is there anything you want to kind of check off of it this year or next?
FARA ( 01:00:36): So we’ve been joking about the fact that we’ve never gone on a cruise, and because my husband’s like, I don’t want to go on a cruise, we might try that. That’s not really a bucket list item again, as I said earlier, I’d love to go live as a local in Europe, if I could ever pull that off for about three weeks and just live there, that would be a bucket list item. Um some who knows, I mean, I’m taking it one day at a time, we’ll see.
TAI ( 01:01:07): Any parting words for our audience today.
FARA ( 01:01:11): No, I I first of all, thank you so much. Um you know anything that I’ve said has been meaningful in my life, but you know, I think you have to find your own path, you have to find your own, you have to find your own way um but just know especially for those leaders out there, know that everything you do has some impact on people that are crossing uh in your journey. And I think it’s really important not to um to misuse that and to uh to be very often to be very intentional um as you, as you move through your career,
TAI ( 01:01:49): Well, thank you for taking part of your day and sharing it with us. We really appreciate it, hearing your stories and your journey and until the next time y’all, charge the wave.
FARA ( 01:01:59): Thank you.
VOICEOVER ( 01:02:03): Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Charge the Wave focused on entrepreneurs, executives and icons who are assiduously building companies, cultures and communities. Til next time, Charge the Wave. Charge The Wave is brought to you by Footnote 4. Footnote 4 has had a front row seat to many recent successes in the last several years, both advising and consulting for incredible individuals and teams who have risen above their stations by building high performance crews and cultures and carving their own paths throughout various industries along the way. Footnote 4 dedicates Charge the Wave to the late Duke Kahanamoku from 1890 to 1968. The greatest waterman pioneer and American icon of our time. The Diversity Movement. The Diversity Movement’s DEI navigator is everything you need, all in one place. You get access to a host of resources with DEI Navigator and all at a fraction of the cost of hiring a full service DEI consultancy visit www.thediversitymovement.com/footnote to learn more. Candle Cares. Candle Cares is an online tool that helps caretakers take care. Nowadays, caregiving has become a full time job for one’s parents, children, fur babies and ohana. Candle Cares helps you manage your caregiver crew, loved ones who need care and everyday tasks. A single candle can light many other candles without losing its own light. Candle Cares helps you be the light for others every night and helps your caregiving team organize their tasks on a daily basis. Coming soon to Apple and Android. Outrigger Cold Brew Coffee Co. Outrigger Cold Brew Coffee Co is cold brewing the Aloha spirit from soil to sip, waking up the wayfarers with its signature Hawaiian blends of coffee beans and roasting styles, including 100% kona coffee. As Mark Twain famously proclaimed in his letter from Hawaii, kona coffee has a richer flavor than any other, be it grown where it may and call it by what name you please. Be wherever you may and whatever your next challenge we’re cold brewing our next batch of aloha spirit from soil to sip to help you charge the wave.
About the Charge the Wave Podcast
Footnote 4 presents its Charge the Wave podcast – focused on entrepreneurs, executives, and icons who are assiduously building companies, cultures, and communities.
Charge the Wave aims to uncover the personal stories and anecdotes from inspiring builders and trailblazers in their respective professions and dig into the formative moments, hard-fought lessons, and circuitous voyages that are woven into the fabric of the everyday, interesting journeys of our fellow wayfarers.
Charge the Wave is focused on the industrious pioneers who are navigating the choppy waters of the unknown, rising and grinding everyday to face the endless uphill climb.
Charge the Wave is singularly focused on:
Inspiring entrepreneurs — who are building startups, battling the unstable seas to discover product-market fit, and aiming to launch innovative products and services to successfully cross the chasm into successful commercialization.
Influential executives — who’ve had winding career paths, weathered the storms and wreckages, and built resilient and high-performing crews and organizations.
Iconic individuals — who are becoming authors of their destinies and master navigators by wayfinding, sidewinding, wandering, and perfecting their craft, charting new courses to make an indelible mark in the world.
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Footnote 4 has had a front-row seat to many recent successes in the last several years, both advising and consulting for incredible individuals and teams who have risen above their stations, by building high-performance crews and cultures — and carving their own paths throughout various industries along the way. Footnote 4 dedicates Charge the Wave to the late Duke Kahanamoku (1890-1968), the greatest waterman, pioneer, and American icon of our time.
Website: https://footnote4.com/
Charge the Wave 